The following is a conversation between Alfredo Vargas, a Dominican Republic citizen, and Wilson Thelimo Louis, a Haitian citizen. It occurred in a WhatsApp group called Tout Moun LHADAN, created by Sabine Philippe. Read it carefully:
1- @Alfredo Vargas, I want the SOURCE to see who is lying, PLEASE.
- Alfredo Vargas: ...More than 20% of the Dominican Health Budget is spent on Haitian women giving birth at no charge in the DR. ...Haitian women are not asked for any documents to get health services. The DR is not the USA.
2- @Alfredo Vargas, I want the SOURCE to see who is lying, PLEASE.
- Alfredo Vargas: ...the Haitian army came and killed Dominicans in Moca, Santiago and the Cibao Valley, mostly because they were whites or not black or not enough of African or French culture.
3- @Alfredo Vargas, I want your video SOURCES to see who is lying, PLEASE.
- Alfredo Vargas: I can send you as many videos of Dominican women experiencing the same issue (about women giving birth in the streets). The underlying point is do Haitian women have more rights in the DR than Dominican women in their own country, when 98% of Haitian women do not have any papers to be there, or are brought by mafias (with criminal individuals of both countries) that occupy, perhaps, the bed space for that human being that you just show? Do you imply that officially the Dominican government is discriminating against Haitians more than your own Haitian government? Why don't you complain there in Haiti?
4- @Alfredo Vargas, Are you saying that Haitians are wost in terms of lying? This is disrespectful as you want to work with us and have this thought towards your Haitian colleagues. Maybe you're right.
- Alfredo Vargas: ...I wish all Haitians to be free from lies of their past so that "its" future looks different than the present.
5- @Alfredo Vargas : I want the SOURCE to see who shares FAKE NEWS, lies, and disrespects people, as @Sabine Philippe Washington stated.
- Alfredo Vargas: I am from that island and my ancestors have been there since 1494. I do recognize Haiti as a sovereign nation and I expect Haitians to recognize the DR as a sovereign nation too.
FULL CONVERSATION:
- Wilson Thelimo Louis: Haitian Black pregnant women don’t have access to healthcare in the Dominican Republic 🇩🇴and give birth in the streets.
- Alfredo Vargas: Send evidence of that. Do not spread lies. More than 20% of the Dominican Health Budget is spent on Haitian women giving birth at no charge in the DR. I counteract any fake news. Haitian women are not asked for any documents to get health services. 80% of Dominicans are of mixed race never skin color has been a barrier to get any public services in the DR. The DR is not the USA.
- Wilson Thelimo Louis: I have seen another video of a Haitian woman giving birth in front of a hospital, and I did not save the video. I also have Haitians living in DR experiencing these issues.
- Alfredo Vargas: Granted. That's how you should send any news. I have two questions, I can send you as many videos of Dominican women experiencing the same issue. The underlying point is do Haitian women have more rights in the DR than Dominican women in their own country, when 98% of Haitian women do not have any papers to be there, or are brought by mafias (with criminal individuals of both countries) that occupy, perhaps, the bed space for that human being that you just show? Do you imply that officially the Dominican government is discriminating against Haitians more than your own Haitian government? Why don't you complain there in Haiti?
- Wilson Thelimo Louis: It is an evidence-based and national-wide issue. I am not exposing Dominicans for what’s happening, but advocating human rights. It would be best if you lived on earth to talk like that.
- Alfredo Vargas: My advise is the same that appears in our coat of arms: Get to know the Truth and the TRUTH will set you free.
- Wilson Thelimo Louis: Are you saying that all facts happening in the DR about Haiti 🇭🇹 are fake news? Would you mind telling us about you, Mr. Afredo Vegas?
- Alfredo Vargas: As far as the Dominican population is concerned, except for the first 50 years or so when Spaniards discovered and conquered the island, the population that was left abandoned in the territory had the opportunity to evolved into a new society without racial barriers or skin based de facto slavery.
- Wilson Thelimo Louis: I think you should read into lines and talk to Haitians living in the DR to understand what they are experiencing over there, as I did. Defending our country as president is fair and lawful. But using people in any way is against the law and must be punished. What the Dominican government had been doing to Haitians for centuries ago is not acceptable. Please, come on earth, Mr. - Alfredo Vargas.
- Alfredo Vargas: Thus, it is against the factual truth to portrait Dominicans in the island between 1560-1804 as a white dominated slave based economy where slavery was due to being black.
- Wilson Thelimo Louis: Again, I am not addressing historical events; otherwise, it would be too deep to discuss. I am talking about what’s going on in the DR. If you’re defending them towards Haitians' life, I believe you’re in the same boat.
- Alfredo Vargas: The truth is that Spain abandoned the island starting in 1560 to favor Cuba, and that lead to French, English and Dutch pirates to occupy the Western side of it until it exchanged it to France in 1697 for Catalonia and in 1795 for the Basque Provinces, both in Spain.
- Wilson Thelimo Louis: Where do you want to come with that? Is history has anything to do with violating human rights? Humans are born free and equal anywhere worldwide. We need public servants with the heart that see people based on values, perspectives, beliefs, and styles rather than on their skin color, as you tried to profile Haitians living in Haiti in your first message. Not because the Haitian government is corrupt, all Haitians residing abroad should be mistreated. Please, revise your thoughts on Haiti and contextualize your understanding of 1804. We proclaimed independence for the whole island.
- Alfredo Vargas: The Dominican Republic became independent from the Empire of Haiti and not from any European power, whether Spain or France, and thus any dispute between Haitians and Dominicans cannot be seeing as a racial dispute, black/white.
- Wilson Thelimo Louis: I will try to understand your point. But according to what aspects disputes between these two countries should be seen? It’s all about racism, and don’t fake it and call it fake news. You’re all seen and dirty as hell. I heard from Aristide that the US 🇺🇸 invested in Dominican gangs to create violence in Haiti. DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THAT? If I cooperate in making make your house unlivable, what would be your reactions?
- Alfredo Vargas: That is an issue that all imperial powers of the past and present have used to keep both countries under their power to prevent that both populations get along well as we did for over 300 years until in 1805, the Haitian army came and killed Dominicans in Moca, Santiago and the Cibao Valley, mostly because they were whites or not black or not enough of African or French culture.
- Wilson Thelimo Louis: Are you part of this revenge? I got you, dear brother. Case closed, and thank you for articulating.
- Alfredo Vargas: Keep to the facts. Keep to the truth. Don't play the game of imperialist Americans that ask the DR to do for Haitians what they don't do, for example in Texas.
- Alfredo Vargas: The US Democracy is based on the TRUTH as an institution. Let's stick to use the TRUTH as our moral weapon to be free. I wish all Haitians to be free from lies of their past so that its future looks different than the present.
- Alfredo Vargas: I do live on earth more than you can imagine. Perhaps, if we get to talk directly and exchange our points of view, you will have direct knowledge from me and not through third parties.
- Wilson Thelimo Louis: Let's finish the conversation here, as I love public debate, please. I also believe everyone would like to know your background supporting the Dominican's decision to kill and deport Haitians against the law. I am convinced you will teach me something, and I also want everyone watching here to learn from you. Please, your biography, if you have one.
- Alfredo Vargas: I am from that island and my ancestors have been there since 1494. I do recognize Haiti as a sovereign nation and I expect Haitians to recognize the DR as a sovereign nation too. I know that the two island states are the pawns of Imperial Powers of the present and the past. Let us not fall into their game. The TRUTH is our ally. Let us talk for the sake of our Island and its two countries: Haiti and the Dominican Republic. We are neighbors not necessarily siblings.
- Wilson Thelimo Louis: Oh, you’re Dominican! What makes you say Haitians don’t take DR as a sovereign nation? ou're already in their game and watch what you’re saying about the maltreatment of your neighbors in your land. You shoot them, do not give them care, burn their houses and steal what they have. Are you being controlled by the white imperialist system you’re criticizing? I like your position as a nation with a unique population and a sovereign country. I heard that you deported Haitians to Haiti because they were black. Shame on you because you’re of black and decent. You’re trying to erase your history. As Haitians, we are always looking for friends, partners, and unity with mulâtres. You tricked us by killing Dessalines, who gave you freedom, and you just contributed to killing our last president. You will always need negros. Save that, mulattoes.
D’Artagnan: Alfredo you are from Dominican Republic it's normal to defend the Dominicans people. We have to much videos to attest Dominican people are racists.
- Wilson Thelimo Louis: Send them here, please. Let’s animate the group and give this colleague and answer. The Dominican authorities even deport native Dominicans born in the Dominican to Haiti because of their skin color. A friend told me they deported light-skin Dominicans who speak Haitian Creole, too, even though they have Dominican passports. Their army members and police officers burned and shredded the Haitian flag in front of Haitian civilians on video. It’s a war, and you talk about peace on the island. Send me more like this, and I will post this conversation to highlight the world about the 🦠
Sabine Philippe: Excuse-me all here, but I wanted to make sure that everyone knows that this forum was not created for people to disrespect others. People are entitled to have opinions without having to be subjected to epithet and insult. Haitians are as responsible for what is going on to Haitians everyone on the planet because they do not respect themselves or each other whether in Haïti or elsewhere. This is where the conversation should start. We, Haitians, are allowing everyone to trash us on this planet, and we should look into what we can do differently as a people to change this mentality. Maybe then we can stop blaming others for the treatment of Haitians overseas and take real actions starting with the human rights violations in Haïti happening daily and crippling the country. The division and personal agendas are preventing good things to happen to Haïti! Let’s have a different narrative and start taking actions for REAL!
1- Wilson Thelimo Louis’ questions to Sabine Philippe:
Is there any more detail you can provide?
Can you tell me who disrespects who?
Can you imagine how you would feel if someone publicly called your post fake news or a lie?
2- When confronted by a stranger willing to put your people down, I would reframe such a statement as a Haitian leader. We are viewed as leaders looking for relationships instead of defending our heritage through these approaches. Whenever I am criticized by the people I support, I feel weak.
This is what you said.: "Haitians are as responsible for what is going on to Haitians everyone on the planet because they do not respect themselves or each other whether in Haïti or elsewhere."
3- My knowledge of your efforts and actions includes the following:
· Hosting an online radio show.
· Organizing a contest.
· Publishing your views on Haiti's decision.
What has your organization been doing to change this mentality, and what have the outcomes been*?
This is what you wrote: "This is where the conversation should start. We, Haitians, are allowing everyone to trash us on this planet, and we should look into what we can do differently as a people to change this mentality."
4- Your assumption about not blaming others for Haiti's current situation makes sense. If I am not misinterpreting your protest in Washington, how do you feel about official decisions for Haiti taking place in the US? As far as I know, you agree with mister Vargas who wants to unite Haiti and the Dominican Republic into one country since he believes Haitians don't take the Dominican Republic seriously as a sovereign country.
Here's your approach: "Maybe then we can stop blaming others for the treatment of Haitians overseas and take real actions starting with the human rights violations in Haïti happening daily and crippling the country."
5- Despite the contradictions between your approach and mine, I agree with you. If not, do you belong to any political party in Haiti? Maybe you could share the party's national program with me to see how you work together for Haiti's development. In your words:
“The division and personal agendas are preventing good things to happen to Haïti! Let’s have a different narrative and start taking actions for REAL!”